#skam nl meta

[toneelspeelster]

portraying trauma, a skam and remakes comparison

disclaimer: i’ll start this by saying this meta will be critical of the way wtfock portrayed their version of a traumatic experience (the gay bashing). if you do not want to engage with criticism on this, i’d advise you not to read. this will also discuss only a few versions (skam, druck, skam nl and wtfock) in particular because i didn’t want to make it too long and because i feel these versions deal with trauma in an interesting way. 

common reactions

in any case, i’d like to start with common reactions after experiencing a traumatic event, be it a sexual assault, emotional assault, physical assault etc.

1. anxiety and fear 2. re-experiencing of the trauma. 3. increased vigilance 4. avoidance 5. anger 6. guilt/shame 7. grief/depression 8. self image and view of the world is negative, trust is difficult. 9. difficulty with sexual relationships 10. substance abuse (i’d include negative coping mechanisms here too).  source

now, i mention this not because i think every remake hits these but rather because i want people to see what commonly happens after traumatic events to people and how wtfock in one instance (robbe/sander) misses the mark completely while in another (zoe) it actually sort of works. and how other remakes have dealt with the subject matter. 

first off: skam

to start with even’s traumatic experience and his response. i’m starting with even mostly because it’s the original series, not necessarily bc i think it’s the most elegant portrayal (bc it’s definitely not). but in essence, what it does show is the effect of a traumatic event in the long run. even’s experience at bakka, where he kissed one of his friends he had a crush on; who rejected him; even being in a manic episode; resulting in a suicide attempt and his self inforced isolation from his best friends by going to another school and ignoring their messages - it’s touched upon in his initial season but expanded in season 4. and still at least one year later, still even freezes up in fear immediately after seeing his friends. even is incredibly anxious; it’s clear he’s recalling past memories he’s been trying to avoid for forever; he feels immensely guilty (he wants to see elias, he really does, he just doesn’t know how) and even though i think even’s self image is not necessarily the result of this experience, it does have an even more negative effect on his self-image. even has difficulties liking himself, seeing worth in himself, even in season 4. after reconciling w him (however that even went we don’t know) he appears in one of their vlogs and still you can see how uncomfortable it makes him to talk about it. but, this is what it ends on: you see the strength of even reaching out to those he loves and for them being able to reach out to him too. in the end, it’s healing. it is discussed throughout the season.

 then, numbers two: druck and skam nl

i’m combining these two in one entry bc i feel like these two portrayals deal with the repercussions of traumatic experiences to the life of these two very well. 

first off, we have david, who came out as transgender at a previous school and was met with intense transphobic reactions; deadnaming, invasive personal questions and just generally awful treatment by people - it resulted in david feeling very unsafe, difficulties sleeping and hiding and running away in the hopes of avoiding these situations. it affects his world view of the world as unkind, and him forcing himself to be okay with being alone bc the only one he trusts is himself. he doesn’t let people too close (wanting to stay anonymous) and when matteo breaks up with sarah he runs bc matteo is getting too close. and then, it happens again. he’s outed on social media in his new school, having difficulties even doing his exams bc his teacher is being a transphobic dick and he’s scared of both him and the kids at school. he then, after staying with his godmother, hides himself away at an unsafe, abandoned pool and even staying there for a night. 

then, we have liv. earlier in her life, she’s implied to have had an eating disorder - a traumatic experience in itself. and although she seems very aware of her needing to be careful not to fall into those patterns again, it unfortunately does come to the front again when faced with the fact that she’s been sexually assaulted in her sleep and it’s been filmed without consent. as an eating disorder survivor, i’d say her body is already something she might have difficulties with. to combine that with sexual assault.. it results in liv isolating herself at home, resorting to doing her white(!) laundry multiple times in one week and her stress baking cookies only for her to give them to her roommates. her mum even asks her if she’s eating well - for a mother who seems emotionally and physically distant otherwise, liv must’ve not sounded well. even when she seems a little bit better, engel still comes over to check up on liv and cook for her. engel has similar ed experiences so she knows it’s not something that’s just gone one second to the next. 

these portrayals work well bc it is clear that their experiences have become a detriment to their view of the world and result in them resorting to very unhealthy coping mechanisms. they both clearly feel the loss of control, the triggering of (past) experiences; the avoidance and the isolation. liv feels immense shame, david feels immense anger and fear - they both have difficulties trusting people, even the ones they care about the most. 

but, in the end? 

david does let matteo subtly know where he is, bc he knows matteo will see him and find him. matteo calls him even out on it: you are not a damned vampire who needs to hide away, he says - something that david didn’t even see about himself until matteo told him. he finds support in matteo and all of his friends and his sister. he doesn’t need to be alone anymore. 

and liv? she tells her friends about her troubles eventually, and they support her wholeheartedly, telling her it’s not her fault and flashing boobs while doing so. liv finds the strength to confront her attacker and blackmailing him, and eventually her boyfriend tells her she needs to go to the police to report his brother. 

these are both david’s season-long storyline and liv’s multiple episode storyline (all her clips for the first week after her experience focus solely on this). it’s healing to see this happen to survivors of these experiences. 

as a ender: wtfock

i think it’s important to establish first that this is first and foremost about robbe/sander’s gay bashing. robbe and sander have been dating approximately three days when they are violently and verbally assaulted and seemingly left for dead in antwerp’s streets. the next episode makes a point of robbe and sander being hurt badly with bruises and cuts and black eyes, robbe doesn’t sleep much and is irritated quickly and sander has a very weird reaction to violence in general and doesn’t want to go to the police. later, robbe is scared that sander was put off by the idea of going to the police, that he felt forced. within that same first episode, robbe tells milan the true story and zoe a little off story and they react sympathetically, zoe even offering her doctor. robbe’s mum’s psych also refers him to a therapist and he calls her. 

but then the storyline, after episode 6? it ends? milan seems to weirdly reference it sometimes but it doesn’t come to any conclusion in the end. after reconciling sander and robbe have no trouble kissing in front of everyone. there’s no sense of robbe or sander having internalised a different world view after this experience. they even never discuss it ever again after that first week. robbe going to a therapist is not even shown or referenced at all, even with the opportunity being there with social media updates. there’s no real repercussions, except for loss of sleep and sander maybe sort of seeing it as a way of destroying something time and again but that’s more his world view bc of his mental illness i’d say. it’s a storyline for one episode, that’s it. and with how irresponsibly they portrayed it by not immediately showing them being alright or together or taken care off but waiting hours for an update, it triggered a hella lot of audience members instead. as a bisexual woman myself, i felt scared watching that. 

zoe’s storyline of having to testify even got more of an appropriate portrayal as she’s scared to testify and also feels pushed by the people who love her the most (milan and senne). her breaking up w senne feels more an actual genuine decision bc of messed up feelings about the whole situation (senne being quite... aggressive with how he approaches her about it sometimes.. it felt like he wanted it for himself mostly, not for her). her not being able to sleep and feeling exhausted, months after the actual traumatic experience happened. it has an effect on her and how she responds and how she makes decisions.

conclusion

experiences like these have repercussions. but apparently in belgium only sexual assault results in trauma. gay bashing doesn’t. it had no true purpose except to educate straight people about the plight of lgbt people being attacked violently. but, as people far more eloquent than i have said, why? homophobes will not watch this series and suddenly turn around. and the world is damned if people just don’t realise that beating up people is bad and shouldn’t happen. 

the true purpose of skam is to teach people of all kinds, and to show people of a certain minority, community or with same/different life experiences that there is hope, and a lot more to them than just what they have experienced. now even the good portrayals could have all benefitted from telling the audience that it’s good and okay to go to therapy about this... but at least they didn’t shy away from a storyline that shows how deep this runs for people. they devoted time to it.

and that’s all wtfock really needed to do if wanting to make a point by including this. they didn’t. it’s sensational fodder at best. and i think that the characters as well as the audience?

they deserved better than that. 

[augustrinian]

Jesus I saw eskild and ralph in the same frame and my brain collapsed in on itself my god

[isakogsana]

Isak, Lucas, Matteo & Co: Behind the Name

I’ve been thinking about the different Isaks and their names, and tried to find out why they are called that way (and why Lucas is so popular). This is mostly from memory/wikipedia, so if anyone has something to add please feel free to do so!

“Isak” is pretty obvious because that was already discussed in the fandom, but here’s a reminder nonetheless: In the Old Testament, Isaac is Abraham’s son, Genesis 21:21 describes his birth. That’s why the number and the pool scene are so important - Isak is rebirthed through his kiss with Even, he’s finally able to live his life in a real way and so on, we all know how the story goes. I’m sure it’s also a reference to Isak’s mom being religious.

“Lucas” is a biblical name again, as most on this list are. This is something almost every remake picked up, though I don’t think that the connection to his mother is present in each (Skam Italia hasn’t shown any sign of Martino’s mum being super catholic yet). So why “Lucas”? One reason could be that this name is even more in-yer-face with its connotations than others. Lucas (or Luke) is one of the four evangelists in the New Testament, so we have a) a big name that is hard to miss/a more obvious link to the theme of religion and b) a direct link to Christianity in particular. Furthermore, Lucas’ gospel is a bit more special than the others: Instead of jumping between events, it chronicles Jesus’ time on earth from beginning to end. He also tells rather than speculates about it and was said to be a doctor/historian (so here we have a rather scientific approach to religion, which fits Isak’s character). Plus, Lucas apparently warned about people who claim that the end is near (parallel to Isak’s mom). He’s also the patron saint of students, surgeons, physicians (again, reference to Isak!) as well as artists (metaphor for Isak watching over Even the artist?)

“Matteo” is found in the bible as well, he’s also one of the evangelists (aka Matthew). I guess the Druck people probably wanted to use another name cause Lucas was already taken at that point? Not that this stopped skam spain or skam nl. But I do think that they took into consideration that french Lucas already existed. And Matteo is a great choice - the connection to religion is still quite clear, and they used the italian version of the name (in german it’s Matthias/Matthäus) so we all know about Luigi’s heritage (I actually wonder if that will be adressed further - making Matteo italian is smart on one hand, because we strongly associate Italy with Catholicism, but since Skam Italia doesn’t really go down that route it might be a bit stereotypical? Idk). The name itself apparently comes from the Hebrew “Mattitjahu” which means gift of God or God-given.

“Martino” is also an important christian name. The first thing I associate with it is Saint Martin (Martin of Tours), who was a roman bishop: He refused the roman military (miles Ceasaris = Soldier of the roman emperor) and called himself a miles Christi (Soldier of Christ) instead. He wanted to leave the military, but wasn’t allowed to quit for a long time. When he finally became bishop, he also founded a monestary and did a lot of other great things, which resulted in him being the patron saint of travelers, beggars, soldiers, several cities, recovering + reformed alcoholics (make of that what you want) and more. There’s also a legend that says that during Martin’s time as a soldier he cut his cloak with a sword and gave one half to a freezing beggar. I guess that resembles Skam Italia’s Martino in terms of caring and showing kindness? He seems less aggressive on the outside than Isak, and is generally more soft. Also the cloak sharing thing reminds me of him literally sleeping on the floor when Gio stayed over (although that was for different reasons) or giving Luchino the most adorable hug when he forgot his birthday.

I’m not entirely sure about “Shay”. Google says that in Irish, it means “the stately, dauntless one”. I don’t know about stately, but I like dauntless as a character trait! It reminds me a bit of the snaking, but it’s also about Shay evolving as a person and being unafraid of who she is and who she loves. Another fun fact, it means “gift” or “present” in Hebrew, which is lovely as well. Apparently it’s also a diminutive of Isaiah - I’m not sure if that has something to do with “Isak”, but that would be cool!

Kinda at loss with “Robbe” though ... I know that the name might come from Robert, but that means “bright fame” and I haven’t watched enough of wtfock to say that this reflects Robbe’s personality, but I still doubt that the first thing that comes to mind is bright fame with this character so. But if there’s a different meaning in Flemish, please let me know!

Sooo I guess this shows that the theme of religion/christianity in general plays a big role in Isak’s character arc? I mean we been knew but I just thought that it was cool that this is mirrored in most of the remake’s choice of name!

[under-druck]

hot take... so far Lucas vdh has been underwhelming and the acting has not been good... I want to like him but there’s no personality or flare to the character at all. oof

[skamremakesfromhell]

i will survive is such a good song choice for the liv and isa moment

like not only is it a song about getting over a breakup, one you had invested so much of yourself in “first i was afraid, i was petrified. kept think i could never live without you by my side” i mean kes and isa have made comments before about how they couldn’t survive without the other, and coming out stronger in the end

but also! literally the lines right before noah interrupts them?

like find me a better description of noah! you can’t ajkekdjakjabs

[aimeegbbs]

can you elaborate on why you don't like janna from nl?

i’m gonna try to explain this but pls keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion based on reading some meta on her character and seeing janna a little differently rewatching the show a second time.

we all know the friendship between the girls is the heart of the show and it’s developed brilliantly (especially the friendship between liv, isa and janna in s1). but i feel like the writers only developed the dynamic and not really the characters themselves if that makes sense? throughout the 2 seasons janna is literally the funny friend and nothing else. and yeah, that’s a general problem i have with most of the chris characters until s4 :( they never give her a moment where she gets to show a different side and it’s really frustrating to see so little of a character with that much potential again og chris didn’t get that herself until s4 so i can see why the skam nl writers didn’t develop her more  but i just wish the writers would have given her a little more room, like for example in skam españa s1, cris gets to explain why she’s disappointed in eva for the eva/inés thing and she gets to be mad at viri for what she did to eva. even before she got her own season she was developed more. same goes for druck. in s2 when sam learns about winterberg she straight up tells mia that his will hurt kiki, tells mia that kiki looks up to her, calls hanna and mia out for not noticing how much kiki is hurting. it’s small but it makes me enjoy the characters more

other than the lack of character development i struggle a lot with the portrayal of her sexuality. i know she’s one of the few confirmed wlw of the skamverse but as someone who’s bi i just don’t feel great representation. this is again sth i didn’t mind until someone pointed it out to me because i’m just so used to watching girls on screen who “just don’t want to label themselves because what’s the point.” stuff like that gives me major faking it war flashbacks that i’d like to forget... as someone who struggled a lot with labeling myself this just isn’t the representation i’m looking for. that's why skam nls portrayal of jannas sexuality doesn’t really work for me compared to skam france (alexia) and skam españa (cris)

this got way deeper and longer than i wanted that ask game to go adjssgsgs but yeah, that’s basically why i changed my view on janna. also this is just my personal opinion. i’ve seen loads of people praising skam nl for jannas character and it’s cool if other people can identify with her. that’s what skam’s about. and most importanly: RENEW SKAM NL

[smokeonshadows]

No one asked, but here are my thoughts on the recent Skam NL clip :D

I know a lot of people were worried that the death of Noah’s mother would hinder Liv and Noah’s relationship, but after watching this clip, I think it actually helped propel the relationship forward and it’s kind of really brilliant on Skam NL’s part. 

What I mean is, when Noah said: “I don’t know what this is between us, but I’m done with it.” You really get the feeling that he’s just so tired. He feels so much older and it’s no doubt because of the death of his mother. This brush with mortality was a sobering realization that life is short, time is a limited resource and he doesn’t want to waste it playing games.

Not saying that this excuses his previous disrespect of Liv’s boundaries, but you can definitely see that he’s not the same person he was before. This Noah is done with trying to be charming or slyly violating boundaries to be ‘cute’. He’s dead serious and he wants something real.

The acting on Skam NL is always top notch, but Monk’s performances in this was so well done. None of this would’ve worked if he had been off by even a little bit.

And I think Zoe played off of it really well. I think Liv witnessing the funeral and the change in Noah caused a shift in her as well. Even though Noah did sort of open up to her on their first date at the church, he still had an ulterior motive so of course she wasn’t going to trust him 100%. But this is very different. This time he’s actually being vulnerable with her. Like I said, he’s not trying to be charming, he’s not trying to persuade her, and that’s how she realizes that maybe what she feels for him is real.

Even though it was still kind of shady that she lied about being locked out of her house as an excuse to stay over, it does seem realistic. She’s admitted to herself what she feels for Noah, but she wasn’t entirely ready to admit it to anyone else, but she still thought it was important to be there for him.

I also really like that they took so much care in portraying Noah’s room. The artwork everywhere, even the small detail of him having a record player show that he has a very specific personality (which was definitely something that OG William (who, tbh, was always more caricature than character) kind of lacked).

All of that said, even though within the situation it’s totally understandable, I do think (from a meta perspective) that it was really unfair for the show to have him call her out on the ‘push and pull’ (because as I noted in my previous post, even though we could see that she likes him a little, he doesn’t have that information) but not call him out on repeatedly showing up at her house when she expressed that she didn’t want him there. I’ll do a more detailed post on it later because this seems to be a problem in OG and all the other iterations of this ship.

[nofeartina]

do you think you'll check skam nl s3 if they get to do it? seeing how you're enjoying druck, i think skam nl might be the only other remake that would catch your attention

Hi sweet anon.

I really don’t know. I mean I’ve enjoyed Druck, but I’ve also not enjoyed it? I really like interacting with the fandom while watching but there’s been so much discourse that took away from the enjoyment of watching for me, and I don’t know if I want another go at that. 

I also haven’t watched anything from Skam nl, where I had watched some of Druck s1 when it started airing, so I knew the characters a bit before hand. I know a lot of people really enjoy seeing the “same” story retold again and again, but I’m not sure I’m one of them. I’ve enjoyed Druck changing the story quite a bit, it made it feel less like watching the same again. 

That being said, I’ve really enjoyed being part of a dynamic, lively fandom again, with lots of new content being made and people constantly discussing the clips and meta and hc’s. I LOVE that. :)

So all in all, I don’t know if I’ll give other remakes a try. I guess I’ll have to see if one interests me in the same way Druck did. :)

[gulegardiner]

anyway i’m finally watching skam nl, so i was watching it and eating chips with a sauce and the next thing i saw isa was doing the same thing, and wow it was too meta

[skammovistarplus]

S01E03C06 - Eva and Jorge

Okay, so before I start, I'll admit my bias here: I am hardcore into Eva/Jonas. Like I've said many a time, Eva is in my top 3 along with Isak and Sana, and I would never be able to rank them further. And, for personal reasons, I love Jonas. I think Eva and Jonas are well-matched, but I won't ship a remake Eva/Jonas if the remake puts me off them.

I'm not really an Eva/Penetrator Chris shipper, and I don't feel Skam ever really tried to sell the viewer on it. Skam tried VERY hard to sell the viewers on Eva/Jonas.

So I wrote this as a spontaneous response to a friend saying they'd seen Jorge being compared unfavorably to Marlon (Skam Austin) and Kes (Skam NL), after clip S01E03C06. I’ve cleaned up and added details to post as tumblr meta.

I was not expecting Jorge to say what he said in the clip, about Eva and Inés. In case someone is reading this and didn't see subs yet (mine won't be out for a while, if you're even able to find them, heh), here's the full context of the comment:

Eva: Tío, es que de verdad, cómo que feo. Feo. ¿Desde cuándo te llama feo? Jorge: ¿Y tú? ¿Tú desde cuándo eres así? Eva: ¿Así cómo? Jorge: Pues así. Como Inés.

Eva has found a text from Inés to Jorge that says: "uglyyyy!!! what's up on monday in the end?" (I am being super careful with the wording, because I don't want there to be little nuances in the translation that might influence the way people read the rest of my comments.)

Eva: Dude, I mean seriously, what's with the ugly thing. Ugly. Since when does she call you ugly? Jorge: And you? Since when are you like this? Eva: Like this how? Jorge: Like this. Like Inés.

Again, to my knowledge no Jonas has ever said something like this to an Eva, and especially not at this point in the season. Jorge is saying, first, that there's nothing between Inés and him. Because he can't stand Inés. If he could, he wouldn't make that comment about her. Secondly, he's saying that if Eva turns into an Inés, there's going to be nothing between Eva and him either. A friend interpreted this as a threat on Jorge's part. There's definitely a bit of a threat implied, especially in Jorge's body language. not a physical threat, mind, but a threat that breach of privacy is a CODE RED for him.

I found this interesting, because we don't know a lot of what the other Jonases make of the Ingrids. What do the respective Jonases think of the Ingrids, as people, once they've moved on and gotten together with the Evas?

There's a hint of conflict in some versions. Og Ingrid is big into Russ, Jonas isn't. Tom may or may not be French Ingrid's brother, and also Yann's dealer. Leonie wants to organize the Heroes Party, whereas German Jonas doesn't want to work for people who might be proto-Nazis. Giovanni regards the Villa boys with full scorn, and Laura happily parties with them. Marlon seems to dislike everything Abby stands for, although he will deal Adderall to her.

But we do know what Jorge makes of Inés. He can't stand her as a person, he's only putting up with her for reasons that will be revealed later. Skam España has been making so many changes that it's really up in the air what Jorge and Inés' deal is about.

It's not just that he can't stand her as a girlfriend. He can't stand her as a person, because his walls go up completely when Eva throws the "ugly" nickname on his face. At this point, Jorge and Inés are not together, but Jorge still dislikes her enough that he very empathically does NOT want to discuss this "ugly" nickname business. That's the point where he's done with the conversation and leaves.

I also think this dislike of Inés is something that has been hinted at earlier. As we saw in S01E01C02, Inés and her crew do the Mean Girls walk and give Eva a Look. Unlike other Jonases, Jorge is fully aware of Inés' power move, he notices it and takes it in. His reaction? He makes a point of kissing Eva while they're standing there in Inés' line of sight. This is a show of solidarity with Eva, of course. But, with today's info in mind, you can argue that he's also sending a message from himself to Inés. "You don't get to be possessive over me."

Now, Jorge as compared to Marlon and Kes. I love Eva/Jonas, but I won't ship their remake counterparts if the remake gives me very good reasons not to ship them.

I still ship Eva/Jorge. For the time being, and this is just episode 3 (of 6? of 8?), I believe he's genuinely in love with Eva. Unlike Marlon and Megan, Jorge is not shitting all over Eva's extracurricular activities. Yes, Jorge does have his own agenda when it comes to wanting Eva to find friends of her own, and also his own agenda in asking how the meeting went. On the other hand, he still seems genuinely interested in and engages with Eva about the girls' first meeting.

Jorge is also fully aware that Eva has been invited to a party by a dude who wants to hook up with her, but he displays no signs of jealousy. In fact, he even seems impressed that Eva scammed this rich ass dude out of an invite. Despite acknowledging that Cristian probably wants to hook up with Eva or one of her friends, he doesn't feel like he has to be there to preserve Eva's chastity. Even though Cristian's vibe doesn't mesh with his, he's also not opposed to Cristian on an ideological level (like many Jonases about the respective Penetrators). He thinks Cristian's party is a decent enough weekend plan, and agrees to tag along when Lucas tentatively agrees to it. That is, Jorge is not attending in order to impose on Eva and her friends and ruin their style. His plan was going with his friends and doing his own thing, alongside Eva, but not with Eva.

Now for Kes/Isa. I actually really enjoy both Kes, Isa, Lucas vdH and even the peeks we've gotten of Jayden. I believe Kes is fully into Isa. He's a bit dickish, but there wouldn't be a plot if the Jonases weren't dickish at this stage. My concern is that, whatever Kes is using, is making him physically dangerous towards Isa. And that's a much bigger issue than Jonas smoking pot and being too stoned to attend dinner with Eva and her mom. You could argue that Jorge lashing out at Eva about Inés was done while Jorge is completely sober, whereas Kes only wrestled Isa to the ground while he was high on whatever. But. Shit. As much as Jorge did a whole turnaround from his usual chill self in S01E03C06, he was still just angry. He was not physically threatening. And if he was, I would be getting off this ship immediately. No amount of love for Eva/Jonas is going to make me ship Marlon/Megan, and physical abuse would be well above Marlon's crimes against Megan.

As a final note, I'd like to bring attention to the fact that, so far, Jorge has had absolutely no issues with Eva's new friends and what they do for fun. Jorge's issue with Eva SO FAR is that Eva is becoming too much like Inés for comfort. This is in stark contrast with previous Jonases, who were immediately on the defense upon hearing that the Sanas wanted the Evas to break up, and also had issues of ideology towards Russefeiring and the various adaptations of it. This might change as the storylines unfold, but for now, Jorge's issue has more to do with Eva's past than the changes Eva's friends are bringing into her life.  

[alterlovetm]

emma tags & extra